Body Liberation for All
Body Liberation for All
Pride Leadership with The Gay Leadership Dude Dr. Steve Yacovelli | Episode 3
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Pride Leadership with The Gay Leadership Dude Dr. Steve Yacovelli | Episode 3

Dr. Steve Yacovelli  (“The Gay Leadership Dude”) is Owner & Principal of TopDog Learning Group, LLC, a learning and development, leadership, change management, and diversity and inclusion consulting firm based in Orlando, FL, USA, with affiliates across the globe.

Dr. Steve has worked with Fortune 500 greats like The Walt Disney Company and Bayer to amazing not-for-profits like The Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation and The American Library Association; large universities like The Ohio State University and The University of Central Florida, to small entrepreneurial rock stars like International Training & Development and GovMojo, Inc. , helping them grow, expand, and be successful with change management, diversity and inclusion, and leadership consulting.

With over twenty-five years of experience in leadership, strategy, organizational learning, and communication, Steve is a rare breed of professional that understands the power of using academic theory and applying it to the corporate setting to achieve business results. 

This episode we discuss 

🌈The secret to great leadership
🌈LGBTQ+ Leadership
🌈True Diversity and Inclusion
🌈Queer Leadership Superpowers and the premise of "Pride Leadership"


Episode Resources

www.daliakinsey.com

Decolonizing Wellness: A QTBIPOC-Centered Guide to Escape the Diet Trap, Heal Your Self-Image, and Achieve Body Liberation

Connect with Steve

Get your free copy of Pride Leadership (just cover shipping; for US addresses only) http://topdog.click/freeship  

Thank you for reading Body Liberation for All . This post is public so feel free to share it.

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Hello, Steve, thank you so much for coming on today.

Of course. Thanks for having me.

So this is a fairly new undertaking for me. I have another show that just lately started to feel like it really wasn't as focused on intersectionality and social justice as I wanted it to be. And it does feel like right now everybody's kind of on fire for that sort of thing, but there are other people who've been doing this work.

For years and years and years. And so I'm very interested to speak to people like you, because even just looking at your website, like right out the gate, you see that your whole mission is helping all types of people to see that they are leaders.

Yup, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. And very astute of you have good job for doing your homework because yeah, that is one of the things that we try to do and, and what I find really.

Really exciting is to think about how you convey that story and that message and that inclusivity in not just the words, but also the visuals, how it's laid out the accessibility of everything and just making those people think those beings, everybody, um, that I can I'm here. I'm someplace that welcomes me.

And now I can explore being a leader regardless of my demographic or, or who I am and where I came from.

Absolutely. And that, that, honestly, that is huge. And even the concept, intersectionality, I think a lot of people still really, they aren't getting it. So when did you have your vision for Top Dog? And how did you know what you needed to do to really create an inclusive space?

So started actually, when I was still full time with Disney I'm former Disney cast member. And, uh, I just got my job working at Disney cruise line. I was an internal leadership and diversity consultant. And so I was on board. One of the ships. And the woman who was the job I was taking were, you know, I was kind of shadowing her on the ship and she kind of looked at me and she said, we need to have dinner.

I'm like, well, we're on a ship for seven days, so we're not going anywhere. She's like, no, no, no, let's, let's go have a private dinner. So we had a chat and she's like, we need to start a company. I'm like, we have jobs she's like, no, no, no. Together we're the perfect, perfect chief learning officer. Let's start a part-time business.

And we're like, okay. So we went to our senior executive at Disney and told her this story and she's like, okay, two rules, don't use Disney stuff. Don't use Disney time, have fun. Yay. So we kind of went off and it started with the, the. Shared passion and vision around leadership development, but also being inclusive.

And this is back in like 2002 when we were working there. And so, so we did it part-time. That was kind of fun. And then, we kind of went our separate ways professionally, although she's like one of my BFFs and technically now works for me again, which is kind of cool. But, uh, in 2008 I took Top Dog to be my full-time gig, just to see what would happen.

And again, you know, being a member of the LGBTQ plus community, I have some bit of understanding of being the other, but then I'm also a white cisgender dude. So then there's that difference? So seeking out, um, different perspectives from all my colleagues got there, but I always knew that at the foundation of Top Dog was being inclusive regardless.

Um, because it's about leadership first and then it's the leadership that each one of us brings through our own awesome, unique lens of the different facets of diversity. And that is power. And we wanted to make sure early on that we embrace that. And, and we've since really tried to help leaders understand that by being a woman of color, by being a white gay man, by being a, a trans person, you are looking at the world through these gorgeous different lenses, and then you put the leadership lens in front of that.

And that just makes things even more awesome.

I love that. And that you were thinking about this in 2002, for me is huge because I finished high school in 2000 and people were still doing black face. People were like people, I know it wasn't a great time, seem like that long ago, but then when you really look at it, we've come a long way.

And of course, marriage equality wasn't a thing in 2002. So we've made a lot of progress, but especially recently, I see we've got a long way to go. So how do you feel knowing that? Do you ever get discouraged feeling like why isn't this moving faster or how do you keep yourself engaged with social justice?

Well, and that's a fantastic question and I, and I think I will be completely transparent and say my, my white privilege was showing several years ago, because when, when things shifted in 2016, you know, and, and, and suddenly like the rock was lifted and all this ugliness started really, really coming to the surface.

My little whiteness was like, oh crap. I thought we were kind of beyond this. And, and that's, that's where it, you know, my experience as a white guy is not, it wasn't really that awesome, even though I'm in this space. And so I do a lot of work on unconscious bias and that's where it's like, yeah, that was the big slap in the face for me.

And so many others in, this area. That maybe aren't being repressed in certain different ways. I mean, obviously as a gay person, I am, but I'm, I'm, I'm not a person of color, so, and I'm a dude. So that was the awesome big, the moment I know for me personally, was that, wow yeah, we've come so far, but we have so, so much farther to go.

And I think for me personally, as someone who advocates for social justice, it’s finding those small wins and celebrating them. And I tend to be a glass half-full kind of guy anyway. And so, what is the good stuff that's happening? I mean, you know, the horrible things that have happened of late with our friends of color and our brothers and sisters of color, you know, and I'm not belittling that the horrible stupidity, grossness of that, but what is the goodness and what can we focus on? Or, you know, anything that happens with, with you putting little tiny Brown children, cages. Okay. That's horrible. What can we do about it? Oh, look, people are now starting to get that focus on. And, and so, you know, I, I try to see those positive lights there and that's kind of what keeps me, me kind of moving forward.

That’s really helpful. And I love that you're transparent and that even working and diversity, equity and inclusion, you could still have moments where white privilege blinds you from other people's experience. I think a lot of people are afraid that they have to be totally perfect. And if they don't know everything that they can't get started.

But to know that you're a leader in this space and you still find room to grow is encourage.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Oh yeah. And I think, I think that's the so smart, but that's the right attitude. Because if you go into this, this kind of work thinking you can't say anything until you're absolutely the most perfect ally or the most perfect representative of your team, you're not going to say anything.

And, uh, I know, um, several years ago, I, I really wanted to be a better advocate for my trans brothers and sisters. So. I stumbled my way through it. And I made massive misses stakes, and I still make mistakes, but I'm humble enough to ask the right questions and it's not asking our questions, but it's also then listening for the answers.

And that's a very, when we get into like, just teaching leadership in general, that's a very. Not common thing to do. Um, Stephen Covey always said, uh, to paraphrase it and we tend to lose, respond versus listening to understand. And that's massive leadership one Oh one. If you can listen to understand, you're just going to propel yourself that much further when it comes to being an effective leader and an effective champion of change.

That absolutely makes sense. And that definitely is a problem. Um, I see it all over the place, especially now with all the stress that lots of organizations are under. Cause we're kind of having to pivot, especially if we used to do a lot of our work in person. So communication, all the weaknesses with communication have come to the surface and they're breaking a lot of teams, but I will say, like you mentioned, you know, there are positives to be found.

Even through these really, really rough patches. I found clarity in what I feel like I should be doing with my life. And I keep hearing this from other creatives and other entrepreneurs that maybe before we were playing down parts of our identity. Sometimes the pushback for really just fully incorporating your marginalized identities into your business.

It can feel like a lot, but then once George Floyd died and a couple of the professional organizations I belong to, failed to say anything like it's not a peep, nothing. Do you know what? I said, you know what? I don't even know why I'm pulling punches for people who don't care if I live or die literally here. So I'm done with the pulling of the punches. And I also felt like it was time to fully integrate my queer identity into my business.

Love

Stop trying to. I hate to say pass, especially, you know, that would have negative word that is to black Americans, to pass. Why would you do that in any capacity it's harmful to you and it's harmful to all the other people who share that identity with you, that can't pass. It's been a major eye-opener.

That's awesome.

For you was there ever a time when you hesitated or you felt any fear around incorporating your gayness into your business? Or did you always know you wanted to lead with that?

Well, and it's a fantastic question and thank you for that. You know, top dog learning groups. I've always, I've always been out. I mean, once I figured my authentic self out at the ripe old age of 24, so that was three years ago. Just kidding. It was a while ago because I'm pushing 50.

You look amazing. Is that what really good living does?

Yeah. It's a great filter on my Zoom. So what, um, when I figured my authentic self out and was after undergrad and it wasn't that I was like, I just didn't know, you know, And so I finally figured that out right as I was starting my real professional life.

And I was like, you know, I'm not going to hide. It took me 24 years to figure it out. I'm not going to hide it. However, you know, this is in the 1990s. So, um, the word was a little different. And so I was very selective in who I told. And so, but it, it was like constant coming out process. Literally like every person in my office that I met, it's like, you know, getting that trust and going through there.

But I, I didn't want to ever hide myself and I've always been, very comfortable with confrontation because I think it actually can lead to good stuff. If it's done well and done from a position of respect, and I remember early on, being in the restroom at this particular, uh, software company I was working at in 1994, these two guys were in there and wash your hands, whatever, making a gay joke.

And I finally went out and I'm like brand new a company. And I went, you know, I just want to let you know that those really are offensive conversation points because I'm gay and that's just not cool. And I just walked out like, and I'm like, Oh my God. Oh my God. Oh my God. And it was like, awesome. And, and since then, I've kind of like use that as like the stepping stone, but flash forward to, you know, I go into, well, when we could, uh, one of the things that top dog does is we do standup training.

So we go into clients places and do like multi-day leadership workshops. And these are like fortune 500 big companies. And every single time I go into those conversations, I have to come out. And so during the, and, and I, I kind of got it down to the science. This particular client's been like 10 years. But during the introduction, everyone kind of goes around.

It's like 20 people in the room. And, you know, it's like, who are you? What do you do? And what? And so I always go last and I said, you know, who am I? What do I do? And what do I like? I'm like, well, I like my dogs. They're like my kids. And I'm like, well, I should say I like my husband. Cause it's been like 22 years and I just kind of leave it at that.

And you know, you drop the little kernel and then you walk away and you just. It's just really fun to watch and read the room. So that was kind of the cool way for me to embrace it. And also, I also know the organizational culture that for my clients, embracing diversity inclusion, at least as a poster on the wall.

So they have to do that. Quote, unquote, have to flash forward to last summer when, my book Pride Leadership came out and I created the sub-brand, the gay leadership dude. Now there's no hiding that, you know, by saying the gay leadership dude, you know, three things about me. I am gay. I sell identify as a dude and I like leadership.

And so that's you pretty out there. But I liked that and I, I, I appreciate that. And I have two brands. I have two website kind of things, but they're slowly kind of coming together or they're wickedly obvious that they're intertwined and I'm way. Okay. With that.

Oh, I love that. I love that. And I want to hear more about the book as well, because you mentioned that people who are LGBTQ plus or in any way, marginalized may already have some leadership skills that come just naturally navigating life as a person who’s being marginalized.

Yeah. Now, when did you realize that? That being gay had actually given you a special skillset for leadership?

A couple of years ago was that my first, NGLCC conference, if you're not familiar with them, uh, for their listeners who aren't familiar with them, it's the National Gay and Lesbian Chamber of Commerce.

So most cities and then of course the nation has a chamber of commerce. They're there to promote business. Well, there's 52, um, chapters, and then there's the mothership in DC that are basically for queer businesses and the foster businesses, uh, who are in our community. And so it was my, I really wasn't part of them.

So the very first conference in Philly. And it's before a session and I'm sorting my business card because I've gotten like a good little nerdy business person. And there's this woman who's gorgeously doing the same thing. We just struck up a conversation and she's like, what do you do? Oh, diversity inclusion, consulting, leadership, blah, blah.

And I said, you she's like, well, I'm a publisher. I'm like, you know, there's a book, a leadership book in my head that needs to come out. She's like, yeah, let's chat. And so, you know, this, Jen is now my publisher Publish Your Purpose Press, amazing group. And, um, and it's about 50% queer, 50% not, but a hundred percent people who are passionate about their story and that's kind of the commonality.

And, um, so as we, I started to outline the book, it was just gonna be a generic leadership book. And then I started looking at my, my queer peers around me and I do, um, you know, local and national, um, advocacy work on behalf of our, our, the queer community. And I'm watching now. All of my gay brothers and sisters who were leading different efforts, you know, whether it be the queer youth group here in central Florida, um, you know, the local chapter of the human rights campaign, I was in charge at the time of Out and Equal.

We have one consortium, uh, after the Pulse massacre, all, uh, I think at the time it was like 29. LGBTQ organizations got together and formed. What's called the One Orlando Alliance, which still works to this day? It's a beautiful kind of like clearinghouse. so watching the leadership there and I was doing work with there and then, um, to date myself, if you've ever seen Sex in the City, Yeah, Carrie Bradshaw, I couldn't help, but wonder it kind of went through my head and I'm like, I couldn't help, but wonder is our gayness to use the generic term something that's impacting our leadership success.

And that's kind of what made me shift and make the focus for Pride Leadership,  that kind of hypothesis does, does being queer give you an opportunity to exercise some of the key leadership competencies that I've seen, people just who have them rocking and rolling in the generic world, just really be great.

So for example, authenticity, if you look at, um, you know, the Bernie and Browns and all the cool leadership folks out there are saying things like if you're authentic as a leader, you’re so much more successful. Why will you build trust? People can relate to you, et cetera, et cetera. We'll now put that through the lens of being a care person.

If I'm out at work, how much more authentic can I be? If I'm, if I'm showing my true gender identity, gender expression in the workplace, my goodness. That's powerful stuff. And so that's kind of how pride leadership talks and it goes through visuals. It goes through six competencies, my mousepad, six competencies, um, that focus on the different areas that, uh, if a leader really develops authenticity, courage, empathy, communication, relationships, and culture, they are setting themselves up just to be even more successful than those who don't look in those areas.

Oh, I love that. And that makes so, so much sense.

Yeah. And it's, it's. You know, I know when I was a young gayling if someone said to me, hey, little gay, boy, who wants to be a leader. You can do it. And here's how, and you have a little, a special secret magic sauce. That's kind of cool. I mean, I would love to have heard that. And so I've been hearing some things, even from straight allies who going through my book and, and there's a, an eight-week online training program that dives deeper into it who are just like, This makes total sense.

And I can relate it to me as a woman or me as, as an Indian American man, or like it's, it's just been really, really excited to hear that it's not just a, just a queer message. Um, when I, um, when my editor, right, the first manuscript, which was like so nervous because like no one in the universe, except for me has done this.

So we sat down on a, on a phone call and her name is Heather. I had those like, okay, Steve, I have to tell you, I'm not your target audience. I'm a white cis-gendered straight woman. I'm like. She's like, this is the book I wanted during my MBA program. I'm like, what? And so she said, she goes, it's really funny.

It's cheeky dad, humor. Of course, you can probably figure that's my personality. Um, I mean, I'm an academic, I have a doctorate. I know how to write that way. And that's a horrible way for people to absorb data. And to remember things to change their behavior. So I made it very cheeky and funny. Um, there's a lot of queer jokes like you in the communication chapter.

Uh, one subheading is Storytelling, like Tori Spelling and like it's stupid things like that, you know, Find Your Own RuPaul when it talks about mentoring.

 Well, I'm into it.

Yeah. But at the end of the day, it's all well-researched leadership. Traits and experiences and resources that I've found in my 25 years of doing this stuff to be a value.

And I just kind of, I didn't reinvent the wheel. I'll be the first minute, but I put it in a different and hopefully more accessible package, but I did put it through the queer lens. And I don't really think there's a whole lot of others out there that do that.

I mean, and that's really important to you. Cause I think there's a lot of people who have a book in them or have some other project they want to do stop because they're like, Oh, it's already been done before, but you haven't done it. And it's different when, like you said, everybody has their own lens. So two people can deliver the same message and you can receive it from one and the other.

And I love to hear that. Cause I, I think about this a lot. If you create something for an audience that, you know, has been underserved and neglected so that they don't have to do it trash to find a self-help message, it's tailored for them. I wondered would the majority pick it up, but it's great to hear that you deliberately marketed to your target people, but other people came right in as well. I guess when you're not being marginalized, you think you're welcome everywhere.

Walk in the door.

So that's a good thing from the perspective of don't compromise your message, thinking that you're going to alienate all the allies.

Well, and it's funny because the rest of that conversation with Heather, the editor was you need to take the next version and de-gay it. I'm like, I love what you're saying, but no. I said, I said, yeah, a couple years from now, when I feel that, that my queer brothers and sisters, got what they need out of it. And then, you know, share it with the rest. I said, but right now, no, I'm huddling to my peeps. Go away.

I love it. I love it. And I have so many people, I want to forward this to, because most of my friends and I were in our thirties and we're. Starting to get it together

Pandemic be damned

Exactly, right. And just really trying to move forward with more leadership positions.

A lot of us are working in DEI (diversity equity and inclusion) I think it's going to be an awesome, awesome resource.

Well, and, and, um, and we'll share kind of some stuff at the end that I'm giving away, like one of the chapters for free and yeah. Um, just to kind of get it out there. And then, um, I am doing a free plus shipping for the book.

So you just cover like shipping and handling, which is kind of fun. But I do have the audiobook now and really funny story. So that was always in the plans. Um, so my publisher had said you get the book physical book out. Around the one year anniversary, audiobook is a good drop. It kind of refreshes everything, blah blah.

So that was the plan COVID happened. So I started working with the audio producer and the way it totally works is we get online at the same time on some fancy little website. And I read and you've read the book into my microphone and then he'll stop me. He's a guy, Paul. He's like, okay, go back and do that sentence again.

Or your word was muffled or so you kind of edit it as you go along. Well, as we started to do that, internet traffic was so horrible that we kept dropping audio and audio packets on the internet are very sensitive. So he's like, okay, you have one or two choices. You can go find a studio in Orlando, Florida for $10,000 a day.

I'm like, uh no. 

Oh yikes

And he's like, or you already have the software to do it. He's like, you can do it on your own and you just have to find a quiet place. And I'm like, all right, I'll do that. So I'm looking at my house and then, you know, it's a 1950s house here and my husband and I, and the best place to read my audiobook ironically, was in my closet.

So my gay leadership books was 65 hours in the closet. There you go. And so I have a picture of me of somewhere where. Like I'm, I'm huddled and the air, closet's not air-conditioned. So that was even more fun in, when May kind of rolled around. But I have like a little soundproof box where my microphone's in and one of my dogs, dog beds over me, just a muffle, the sound.

And it was ridiculous, but it sounds good.

I know so many podcasters can relate to that. Like I recently changed the flooring in my house and I really wanted this hardwood and. didn’t know how much it was going to change my sound. So usually when I'm doing audio only, I'm like under a blanket and it's a whole thing. It gets really hot under there.

People don't understand the sacrifice, but I have heard, like you can put moving blankets on the floor, but I keep forgetting to do that.

I, I have, um, I've learned like I have towels all over my desk cause it's so hard just to kind of like absorb some of the sound. I get it.

These are insider tips people pay attention. Another one of the things, you explained you do at top dog is teach soft skills. What do you consider to be a soft skill and how come so many grownups don't have them?

That’s an awesome question. Um, so soft skills to me is anything that involves being a more effective human, to others. So if you look at there's leadership and management, um, management is kind of like the doing of tasks. You know, I'm going to be an accountant.

So I need to know my debits and credits and all that fun stuff. We're leadership is more about the nuance and how you interact with people, how you motivate, or you don't motivate people, but you set the environment up for them to be self-motivated, how you communicate, how you empathize all those different fun types of things.

And so that's where we focus and ultimately, you know, with the relationship to our clients, that means. That leads to business success. And while it also leads to hopefully human success, you're a better human for being doing this. But in the framework of the work that we do, the organization benefits from that, whether that's a nonprofit, whether it's a fortune 500 or whether it's whomever, um, why don't humans have these skills?

I don't know. Um, some people do, some people you don't and you know, people are like, is leadership inborne or is it something you learn? And I say, yes, I think it's both. Um, it's to me it's like any. Athletic ability. Some people are just gifted at it. Some people, just people, persons, quote, unquote, bunny ears.

Um, some people, you know, they, they don't have the gift, but they work darn hard at it and they, and the end result's the same. And so I think, um, I truly believe in my heart of hearts that. Effective leaders can teach themselves to be effective. Some have the gifts, some don't, but all of us, if we work hard enough at it, just like any other competency or skill, we can absolutely be successful at it.

That is encouraging because I think most people, when they're dropped into a leadership position, they don't get any training specific to leadership. So you get promoted because you did well in another area where maybe you had no direct reports or you just had a couple and yeah, there's a lot of room for disaster when no one instructs you formally on how to you approach leadership.

Well, and I actually, I talked about that in the book. Cause, Dalia you're spot on. You know, let's say I am an accountant. I am not, but let's say I'm an accountant and I'm such a rockstar accountant that what happens to me typically I keep working my way up the ranks and suddenly yay.

I'm head of accounting. Well, I didn't study that typically. Um, I studied debits and credits and looking at how to look at the numbers in the P&L statement and all that fun stuff. And so now I'm at this different where I'm, I'm in a role. Yes, I have to understand. Yeah. And what might my peaks do? But that's not, my job is to do that.

Work is just to manage the people who do the work and what you often see with some leaders who aren't savvy enough is what, where do they veer? They veer to micromanage because, ah, that's my comfort zone. And it's a lot of times it's that unconscious bias for the work that I used to do. And that's a comfort zone I gravitate toward there when I'm not paying attention to the people side of what I should be doing in my role as a leader, especially of a leader of a team or department.

Yeah. Oh, and that's an interesting application of the term unconscious bias. So I hadn't thought of it in terms of something that doesn't have to do with diversity and inclusion. So unconscious bias goes beyond that.

Absolutely. I mean, and, and when you think about bias, just the concept of bias, bias is a proclivity for, or against someone or something based upon a demographic or data point. So for example, um, I use a story from several years ago. I, I, you know, I've to the nieces and nephews and the, the, my one niece, she, you know, we had this, the special bond when we were, when she was younger, but when, before she went to college and just became this really awesome rockstar, I don't need anybody.

And, um, but, but you know, in, in like, like early in her high school, um, I remember getting a call from him sister-in-law and, uh, She's like, Oh, uncle Steven guests who got detention. I'm like, what? There's no way she got detention. She's a rock star. She's so sweet. No way. She didn't. Yeah. So that was at that moment, displaying my bias for my niece.

And so bias has happened that way, whether consciously or unconsciously, and so it can apply to people, but it can also apply to situations, contexts, jobs, you know, we have that proclivity for or against, right. Sometimes when we don't even realize it’s happening. That's where that's the unconscious word comes into play.

And how do people go about becoming aware of those and deciding which ones are harmful and which ones maybe you want to leave? Cause I don't think it really hurts to be biased in favor of your family.

But it could be because if I'm treating, you know, in this case, my niece favorably when, if I look at the playing field, yeah she was kind of being a jerk and she deserved what she got. And, you know, once I peel that back, but you know, like that, and that's where that, that favoritism could get no way. And I, in the context of say, like being a leader, if you are delegating a task and you look at yourself, always delegating a task to the same person or persons, you have to take that step back and say, why is it I trust them more?

Okay. Well, that's something you can kind of dive deeper. Is it unconsciously? Ah, they look like me. Ah, that's a white gay dude. Of course. I'm going to trust him more. That's a problem. Or is it something else? You know? And it could be something as trivial as, Oh, you went to the same university as I did, then I like you better, you know?

And that's, we need to be mindful of that. And, and to your point, how do you see these things happen? I know in my book I talk about what's called a drone perspective. They used to call it a helicopter perspective, but drones are cooler, so, you know, I use drones. Um, but it's like, how can you get out of your own ahead and watch the situation from above, like being in a little drone.

Um, and there's lots of different ways you can do that. Um, when it comes to bias toward people or unconscious bias for people, there's the implicit association test IAT, or you can just Google project implicit. This free assessment to start to explore you own unconscious biases. Well researched really awesome group, great place to start. Mindful meditation is another thing.

And if someone's they're like, eww, meditation, it’s not the granola crunchiness. It's a way to calm your brain and to look at the situation without judgment. And that's what we want to start doing as, as leaders, especially is you stop yourself and you second guess why did I just do that? Why did I just say that?

And. And really understanding the behaviors behind the words.  Why did I delegate that task? Or why did I decide to walk across it street when those other people were coming this way? And is that a bias that's popping up or was it, Oh, I thought this is just shadier side and that's what happened.

Great. It's just having that awareness to understand why you say things and why you do things the way you do them.

Oh, yeah mindfulness meditation now that seems to be something that almost everybody struggles with. So what is an entry point you recommend, especially for people who are super analytical and business minded, who are like, ah, like next you'll be giving crystals, like, I don't know. How do you start?

 Um, so I get, I preface this by saying I tried to be, um, vendor and resource agnostic. Uh, I get no, except for my own stuff, of course. But, um, but I, I, I say this because it's just something that I've explored and I know there's other great resources. I started getting into mindful meditation, two reasons, one I started hearing like Harvard business school was teaching their students how to do that. And I'm like, what? And it's because you see all these C level executives who are getting into mindful mindfulness because it's making them better leaders and making better decisions. And so, you know, if you're. To your point, if you're thinking, ooh, its granola crunchy, um, you know, crystally kind of stuff it's not, it's just a better way to think. So, um, that's kind of one thing that got me into it. And then I personally, I use the app called Headspace. There's a lot of awesome ones out there. And it's just. And if anyone here or listening practices yoga, um, my husband and I do, um, power yoga, if you will, but all yogis, all yoga practices have some sort of what really is like a mindful meditation type thing, in it.

And that's also a really easy way to kind of start is go to your local gym when you can, or get on YouTube and find a yoga app or yoga thing, and kind of play around with it from there.

Okay. Awesome. That's very unintimidating like perfect, good place to start now.  So it really sounds like this is kind of an intersection between self-improvement and being a better leader, so it will influence your life as well. So I'm assuming you don't have to be a leader by title to benefit.

No. And matter of fact, in the preface of my book, in Pride Leadership,

I say, let me define a leader. And basically it's anybody who has influence over others within workplace or beyond. So that's pretty much everybody on purpose. I've worked with way too many businesses and clients who say a leader is a leader of people. I don't like shenanigans. You know, I can be an individual contributor and still have massive influence over my peers and even some of the leaders within the business.

So to me a leader is anybody who wants to exercise that influence and hopefully for the better for the organization, as well as the individuals involved.

I can see that being really useful now for people who are just getting their feet wet with social justice, who question, the value of their own voice. And they question whether or not they should be trying to lead anyone.

 And I think one of the most empowering things for any leader, despite where you're at in your progression on that leadership ladder is to be the voice. And ask the questions and whether you're an ally, whether you're involved in the group, doesn't matter.

It's the opportunity, to ask why. And I say some of my leadership workshops, you know, does anyone here have three-year-olds? What's their favorite word? Why? Why? Why? And, that's, that's a smart, leadership trait. I mean, don't be annoying with it, of course, but, uh, but ask the why's within the organization.

Why are we, as social justice advocates, why are we going down this way? And it's just almost that, check in to be like, Oh yeah, maybe we should pivot to somewhere else or we're doing it this way because, okay, cool. Just validating. Let's keep moving forward. And I think that's a great place for any leader to kind of have that focus.

I love that. I love that this has been so useful. How do we connect to you and where do we get the book?

So the, the best way is, in the show notes, there'll be a link for 'em. It'll actually take you to, my page. So we have a newsletter and I give out free stuff all the time, just because it's fun to do and helps people be fun just to kind of get involved in that once you do that, you'll get, yeah.

The first, one of the chapters of pride leadership available, you'll also then see at the bottom where you can kind of get a link to the free plus shipping offer. We're doing for the pride leadership book. , like I said, I have like, about 40 books underneath my desk right now, waiting for homes. So, you'll just see the link there and that's kind of the best way to find out about the book as well as a little bit more about Top Dog and what we can do for you.

Awesome. And if there is one little bit of advice you could give to like, ten-year-old, you. What would it be?

 Besides wear sunscreen? Um, no, I really mean that where sunscreen, um, the best advice for 10 year old me would be to say, don't be afraid to be your authentic self once, you know what that means. And I think, um, I think there's a lot of pressure on young people to figure that out really early.

And I, you know, back in my day now, I sound like an old person, but back in my day, the word queer was not cool. Um, I was calling you. I was called that as a horrible way of defining me as a kid. So that word has wonderfully shifted. And I like how, especially younger folks who are queer or questioning is an awesome position to be in because it's really allowing you that time to explore your authenticity and embrace that.

And once you have that figured out, if you do then embrace it and don't hide it. I love that. Thank you so much.

Thank you.

Discussion about this podcast

Body Liberation for All
Body Liberation for All
Holistic Registered Dietitian Dalia Kinsey created Body Liberation for All as a resource for QTBIPOC folks who are ready to become the happiest version of themselves, using healing tools tailored for BIPOC and LGBTQIA+ folx. Since wellness is multi-factorial each season covers a broad range of tools (sexual expression, indigenous medicine, mindfulness etc.) for the pursuit of happiness. Special guests and healers join throughout each season to share their journeys to inner peace and fulfillment.