Are you a leader of color who wants to lead and empower in revolutionary ways? Then you need Gieselle Allen...
Gieselle works with revolutionary leaders of color to support them in expanding their businesses, team, and leadership, while also ensuring their needs are met in the process. In her mindset-first approach, she combines mindset, trauma healing and intuition to help her clients create and expand their businesses and revolutionary leadership practices.
If discovering the confidence that comes with: decolonizing your thoughts, owning your identity, and building a thriving life that reflects your values and resonates with your core sounds like a vibe, you don’t want to miss this conversation.
This episode we explore
What having a revolutionary business entails
The role that safety plays in learning and healing
Getting comfortable with having more than enough
Overcoming fear to answer a call to liberatory work
Hello and welcome to another episode of Body Liberation for All. I am so excited about today's guest. If you are a leader of color who wants to lead and empower in revolutionary ways you need Gieselle Allen, I was in Gieselle’s coaching program now almost a year plus ago. And the changes that I experienced in the program were enough to sell me on it, but the way it served as a catalyst for growth throughout 2020 was just beyond amazing. Gieselle works with revolutionary leaders of color to support them in expanding their businesses, their teams, and their leadership while making sure all of their needs are met in the process. And this is something that unfortunately, a lot of us have never had the opportunity to experience.
So, the ways in which your socialization has affected the way you approach business, the way you approach speaking up, the way you approach really leaning into your identities and feeling safe is something that a lot of us haven't visited before.
Having a coach that will specifically address the ways in which your socialization as a person of color has set up barriers that you can step around and circumvent, once you're aware of them its absolutely life changing because this is not the type of instruction or care we're used to.
Sometimes it's hard to even know how much of a difference it would make to have somebody tailor an educational program, a coaching program specifically to you and to address the challenges the other people for so long have been pretending don't even exist.
I love this conversation with Gieselle. Let's jump right in
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Dalia: I am so excited to have you here.
Gieselle: I'm really excited to be here. I'm thrilled. I've been like, I was, I've been like eyeing your podcast for forever. And I was like, when am I, when am I gonna be on this podcast? Like a baby. So, I'm really glad it's working out and that we're here.
Dalia: This is awesome.
Dalia: I'm glad you asked because as you know, for people who haven't already listened to the episode that I was on with someone else who was in the same coaching group as me, when I worked with you, Gieselle basically is out here changing lives and liberating people in ways that you don't even see it coming.
Dalia: So, you think you're just stuck in your business and really, that's not the problem. The problem is mindset, and how we've been socialized is behind it. But I'd gotten a ton of coaching from containers that weren't made for me. and they really didn't get to the root of my problem. So maybe they got to the root of like Becky's issue and like, oh, why don't I feel comfortable?
Dalia: Cuz my Lululemon’s are too tight or whatever, and worked on her visibility problems, but didn't get to me being socialized to not take up space don't challenge authority, and don't you dare do anything culturally distinct because we will. Beat you for it, we'll punish you for it. So being in your container was life changing.
Dalia: And Sarah came on the show and discussed how much the changes ripple out as time goes by. But even though I feel like I've grown so much since the container, I still would've thought Gieselle doesn't wanna be on my podcast. like Gieselle's too big, and too busy, doesn't have time.
Gieselle: Well, you know, what's funny is I feel like I'm just moving into a season where I have the capacity to like be out and, in the world, and on people's podcasts there, it's not about me being too big.
Gieselle: I'm still really small and like the grand scheme, I'm small, I'm intimate. I'm exclusive.
Dalia: I love that. Take on it. Yes.
Gieselle: Yeah. I'm exclusive. I, and I wanna be exclusive, like, that's my whole thing. I'm the kind of person where like when white folks follow me on Instagram, I delete 'em and like, I'm not gonna respond to your you' like random comment on my stuff.
Gieselle: Like, I'm not gonna engage with you if you're white, like I'm very much like I'm for I'm for who I'm for. And if it's not you then like, I'm cool with it. There's enough people in the world. And I don't need that many to be in my community.
Dalia: Wow. I mean, even that, how, what had to change for you to be able to get to a point that it feels safe to say that and that you don't feel compelled to explain this doesn't mean I don't like white people. It means my business is not for white people.
Gieselle: Yeah. That's a really great question. What had to change? I think what had to change is that scarcity that we've all been sold and the devaluing of folks of color that we've all been sold. Right. Where people, you know, I remember when I was gonna make this change and like a big thing I was scared of and a big thing that like, people still, mostly just my dad at this point, but like people still say to me is like, oh, like how much more money could you make if you are working with white folks?
Like we're missing out on those white dollars?
Dalia: Those spend better apparently
Gieselle: Apparently, but here's the truth about like, you know, focusing exclusively on BIPOC folks in business and in anything is that BIPOC folks and I know this because I used to work in TV back in the day. And so like, I understand how, I understand all the things we are, the most loyal people ever.
We support our people like tirelessly, especially Black folks. Like it's like what, you're a Black person, you're doing a thing I'm gonna, I'm gonna work with you. You know? And so, recognizing that, recognizing how loyal we are recognizing that we are the people of global majority in this world, there are more than enough of us was really huge for me.
But I think, I think the thing that it really took for me transparently was recognizing that I'm enough and that like, I was the right kind of Black person to do this work because that was honestly my biggest hurdle. And I think that's the biggest hurdle for a lot of us in being in communities of color, is that we've, we ex exclude we've like inherited these toxic traits in our communities that make us, that make us exclude each other.
Gieselle: And we've systemically been ripped from each other through the prison system, slavery, we can even talk about like immigration and the American dream. Like we've been ripped apart from our communities and culture. And so, it doesn't feel, we don't feel like we fit in with them because we're all kind of this like weird hodgepodge.
Gieselle: But recognizing long story short that I was enough and that my experience was enough, and that people resonated with it that's really what made the big change for me.
Dalia: That is something that I think is a uniquely Black American experience and I could be wrong, but I really haven't heard that message from other folks of color because they did not necessarily experience as much of the deliberate breakdown of community because it's been targeted.
Dalia: It's been targeted and not just during the transatlantic slave trade, but it's also been targeted in more recent history, the deliberate creating of more divisions in the Black community. Yeah. So, we don't even recognize each other sometimes. And we can't seem to be cohesive or find common ground even because I've even lately been watching a TikTok’s where there's this running trend where people are explaining when white folks misunderstand them, they take something literally that's from like African American vernacular English, but I know a fraction of them.
Dalia: And in the past that would've made me feel, oh, this is more proof, I'm not Black enough. I'm not the right kind of Black. Yeah. And because I'm in a multi, well was from a multiethnic household, even though both of my parents are very Black and very into their Blackness, their Blackness was in no way, similar
Dalia: And so, we came out a hodgepodge of their two cultures. And so, I may know random Caribbean expressions that no one's ever heard. And I think, oh, everybody says that. And then not understand. I only learned, oh, you really put your foot in it like two years ago. And I've slowly been using it. And seeing if people can tell, like, I'm waiting to see if I did it right.
Dalia: But it really is a thing when you feel like. especially in public school, I was told, again and again, that I wasn't talking Black enough. Yep. Totally. And that, because I like to go to the library and inline skate that I was enjoying activities that weren't Black enough.
Gieselle: and I, I, I completely had that experience growing up.
Gieselle: One thing I wanna name for the like non-Black POCs that are listening, just to honor them, is that this experience definitely isn't unique to us as Black folks. Like I've seen this so many times in Latin culture, my husband is from Ecuador, but he's white. And so, there's like this strange, but like, it's like whenever he goes to Latin events, he's always like, it's just this big, like contest of, do you speak Spanish?
Gieselle: Do you speak Spanish well enough? Do you have an accent with your Spanish? Like how long did you live in whatever country you were from? Oh, you're you were born in America. Like there's all this thing. Asian folks have the same thing. South Asian folks. So, I was like, it's, it's all of us in different ways.
Gieselle: The systems that ripped us apart are completely different though, you know?
Dalia: Yeah. That makes me really sad because I wanted to believe that other people -somebody's, you know, feeling a sense of belonging in this country that won't allow them to experience a sense of belonging. I was hoping that somebody was out there saying I know exactly who I am and where I fit in. And, but yeah, I definitely have seen that with like how much do you speak the language, and do you have an accent?
Gieselle: And how much like how much from your culture do you practice in your daily life? I think that comes up a lot in like non-Black spaces. Cause I think like Black culture, at least as a Black American, like our culture is just. It's pervasive. It's in there. Like you practice it. It's also what creates all other culture in America.
Gieselle: But yeah, there's so many elements to do I belong as a person of color. Do I belong in this space? Am I enough? And then like, don't even like, then we, we can't even bring like the intersection of like queerness into it. Right. Cause it's like, yeah, well I'm like Blackity, Black, Black, but I'm queer.
And that does not roll either in a lot of families and not a lot of places.
Dalia: It feels like in the whole country, like not at all. I already had issues with the transphobia and the homophobia and the Black community being another one of the things that would sometimes feel like a reason why I'm not Black enough or the right kind of Black, the Black that people are looking for.
And then when I won't even dignify this man by saying his name, but things that happen in the news cycle, remind me of how pervasive it is. Even when I've started to really make an effort to curate my bubble, I'll find that people who say they accept my queerness and accept me and they have queer family will, when someone, you know, is being super transphobic and saying that somehow Black issues, trans issues are two separate things forgetting that there are plenty of people living at both intersections.
Dalia: And then they'll explain how well I do kind of think, you know, it's tearing down the community or I think people really are choosing, and they're just seeing it too much and it's exposing them. And these are people that I vetted already. So, they said the right things, but then when they get triggered by something that really is part of the Black American cultural experience then they go back to what they were trained to believe their entire childhood, that queerness is deviant. And it's a tool that the man is using to tear us all down. and that you're not born this way and you can somehow suppress it and you're better than everyone else.
Dalia: If you're straight, basically and you're even better than, you're better than everybody if you're a straight cis Black man and everyone else's needs need to rank below that. And if you do anything to even challenge the authority of a straight Black man, well, of course you got hit of course you maybe got murdered because you're not allowed, and even though no one's gonna say out loud, well, they deserve to be murdered. The messaging is to stop questioning straight Black men.
Gieselle: and this is, this is, this is like so many layers to what you just said. But I wanna name, like, especially when we're talking about these people that you vetted and that you're like, I like did all the things I was supposed to do, and you're still showing this like deep transphobia and queerphobia.
Gieselle: Right. This is why it's so important for spaces where like, it's just folks who share our marginalized identities, whether it's spaces for BIPOC folks, whether it's spaces for queer BIPOC folks for trans BIPOC folks. Right. That's so important because. That that's why like, even in the most well-meaning of spaces that shit goes down because people are deeply committed to upholding their privileges, you know, and especially, I mean, I love us as BIPOC folks, but I feel like BIPOC folks are really, but, you know, I will say it's not just BIPOC folks.
Gieselle: Cause this is like white women are the pinnacle of this, where it's like, you hold one marginalized identity and you hold onto that with everything you've got and you refuse to acknowledge like, hey, I've got all these other privileges. So, I wanted to name that piece. There was something else that was coming up for me, but I can't even remember.
Gieselle: So, I'm just gonna let it go. It wasn't that important.
Dalia: that, that is really important to point out. I think, cuz I think when people have a hard time understanding why you would just delete a white person when they follow you, is that because people's brainwash is so deeply ingrained you may intend to be a safe space, but you can't promise that to anybody.
Dalia: And even you can't, when you are holding the same identity, someone else, you may bring your toxic internalized shit to the table. Yep. But it's so much easier to work on that when that's the intention or you've set the tone for the space and I really appreciate you putting in the work to keep the container safe, which I find a lot of people, they have all these good intentions for inclusion, but they.
Dalia: Either don't have the capacity, the understanding or the desire to keep the container safe. It's not safe to challenge people when it's unsafe and they don't put anything in place to make it less scary or traumatic for you to express a concern. It's like, there was no thought that went into things are going to go sideways because this is what happens when you get more than one person in a room.
Gieselle: well, and this is something that we talked about. We recently talked about a lot in Revolutionary Rising, which is my program for BIPOC folks. Because like community, we had this moment where a lot of people were joining for community specifically. Like I think when you joined the program and most of y'all joined to work with me, and we had a moment where everyone was joining for community, but when, but like the problem with that, not the problem, but like the challenge with that is that as BIPOC folks, like we've talked about, we've been ripped from, we've been ripped from community.
Gieselle: We've all been othered within our communities, unless we fit the very narrow stereotype of what we are supposed to be. And what is the right kind of Black person, Asian person, south Asian person, Latina person. Right. And so, we come into these spaces and even though it's like, okay, I wanted this community.
Gieselle: I wanna believe that these BIPOC folks have me. I'm completely shut down. I'm completely triggered and I'm actually completely unable to be here. And so, something that we are in conversation around in the community is difficulty and how like, that's, it's the thing that I feel like we all are trained to avoid in community, but it's actually the thing that brings us together and really creates community is knowing that, like you said, I can show up, I can say this shit isn’t working for me.
Gieselle: That was fucked up, like all of the things and knowing that someone's gonna hold that and see it and say, okay, let's, let's make this right for you. But it's hard. It's really, really hard, especially when none of us like. Literally, none of us on this earth, I think, or very few people on this earth really know and know how to do community and have a wide capacity to do community in the way that it was intentionally meant to be.
Dalia: And then it makes me wonder too, are some of our concepts of scaling and like how a business must grow incompatible with community. Because I wondered, I noticed and some other people noticed too, the bigger the group got, the less people were engaging. And I didn't know if it was because they didn't feel safe anymore because it felt like you're in a room, but people keep coming in.
Dalia: And it has nothing to do with who those people are. It's just that they weren't there a few minutes ago. You're just like, whoa, who's that? You know, it's like this natural response or is it that people think once we get to a certain size, well, someone else will comment on it. And I'll just pop in when I need something.
Gieselle: I think it's so many things. It's so, so many things, and it's been a big learning and process for us over this past year. Me and Olivia, our lead coach, but what I think it really comes down to is safety. Like, even like in the way you said it, right? It's like, oh, there's a new person. It's like your nervous
Gieselle: system's like, oh no, who's there? What is this? And I didn't think of that. And the person who taught me this strategy was spoiler alert, white and not creating safe spaces. Right? Like really just creating. I don't know, spaces, you know, for lack of better words. And so, we had to really look at and reevaluate.
Gieselle: Okay. How are we bringing people in? Who are we bringing in? And how can we bring new people into this space without it feeling like horrible on folks, nervous system and making it even more difficult for them to step into this space? Because the reality is that even if it was like six people for a year, it would still be a hurdle for most people to show up in that space and feel safe.
Gieselle: At least for the first like three to six months, because you just need time to build community. And I think that's one of the hard things, like when you are running a business, when you are building communities do you, you know, something that we've been really thinking about is the word community, and there's so many things you need.
Gieselle: And one of the things is, is time is like, do you actually have the time to build the community in the well-intentioned way that you want to? I don't know. So yeah, long story short, we've been really thinking about that for ourselves in scaling and recognizing that. Yeah, it's harder. My, I was just talking to my coach about this yesterday.
Gieselle: And I still want to find the way to make it bigger. Not for money's sake, but because I genuinely want there to be a beautiful thriving community of women and femmes of color interacting with each other. Right. And supporting each other and loving up on each other, but we've gotta find the way.
Gieselle: And that's just the reality of it is that like, it's gonna be a process to find our way there, but I believe we can get there. And I also have to expand my capacity to hold that as well.
Dalia: That makes sense. It's really interesting to see you open, not totally openly, but pretty openly growing even after you've reached a point of success that so many of us are just trying to get to so what has that been like?
Dalia: Understanding that it's never over. And what, let you know that you had the wrong people in the container. I know there's like five questions and one. And how did you feel safe enough to say there's enough money out there? There's enough people out there for me to set you free, like, not necessarily fire a client, but like set you free to find a table that's right for you at this point in your life and with your growth.
Gieselle: Yeah. So, one thing I will say, like, let's talk about like the firing of folks or not the firing folks, but like, because usually I would say it's mutual. Like it's just, ain't working. And for me as a person, like I, there's no amount of money that's worth working with somebody who's not a fit for the work that I do. Because as a coach specifically, if you don't trust me, if you are not down for the work we're doing, you're not gonna get results. And when you don't get results, it makes me miserable. Because I question if I'm a decent coach, like, or even a good, you know, so for me, it's just not worth it.
Gieselle: And it's not fun at the end of the day, nobody starts a business to do, to be miserable. We, none of us did that. And so, I want it to be fun. I want there to be trust. I want there to be love if that can't be there. And that's not, if you're not either ready for it, if you realize it's not gonna happen with me or whatever happens then, like, I, I want you to go eat just as much as just as much as you wanna go.
Gieselle: So that's the thing for me. And it's a great question about recognizing that, but I, I do wanna bring in like the abundance piece of it, because I think that's something that a lot of folks struggle with, especially when they're in the earlier stages of business, cuz it doesn't always feel abundant. It does not always feel abundant.
Gieselle: And I think the truth is I'm like I'm sitting with this question cause I'm like, when did I get to the point where I knew that.
Gieselle: I think it was when I got to a point where. I knew that even if I didn't generate like a billion manillion dollars, that I could strip everything down and do a workshop and still bring in some leads and bring in some folks who were interested in working with me recognizing that it doesn't have to be big.
Gieselle: It just has to be a couple people. And that something else is coming. And I think if you're, you know, if we're talking to folks who are even newer where you're like, I'm not even at that stage, like, I, I can't build a workshop. I can't bring in a couple people. Like I'm still before that. What I would tell you is that everything's a building block and that's something that I've learned and that, and that's something that I'm trying to lean into.
Gieselle: And so it's like every, no is a building block to a, yes, every silent post is a building block to a post that actually gets like one, like, you know, it's all a building block. And so that's something that I try to look towards as well and believe as well. Alongside the fact that like, we don't have these like, callings because they're not supposed to work. Like, that's just not like the universe, our ancestors, like all the things that give us these callings, they, they are not cruel. And so, it's supposed to work. We've just gotta keep building the blocks and then it will.
Dalia: I was going to ask, like, what's the difference between a revolutionary entrepreneur?
Dalia: what else we see out there, but I'm hearing some themes already, cuz you definitely don't hear love, fun, and a calling really emphasized like sometimes you hear people throw out calling like kind of in a cavalier way, but in the container, I really felt like. I, I already knew this intuitively at least for me, maybe it's not true for everybody that your business can be an extension of your spiritual practice.
Dalia: And that, that also might be beneficial for someone who is used to the concept of throwing your worries or questioning on your deity or your ancestors. And that sometimes that's the only way you can move forward because you can focus on, well, what can I do? And I'm just gonna trust that the other things will fall into place, which even if you don't believe that you know, that taking action versus doing nothing is gonna get you different results.
Dalia: But for you, what are the main differences between the way you believe if you're really called to do something, you should look at business or can look at business versus what's usually taught to us.
Gieselle: Yeah. I love what you caught that should cause I was like, well, there's no should but for me, revolutionary business
Gieselle: it's all about at, at its like simplest terms, wanting to do things differently. And when I say differently, like wanting to do things in ways that are human, that respect not just your needs as an individual, but the needs of your people. And it's a business that prioritizes people over profits at the end of the day.
Gieselle: I actually think that would truly be it in its simplest of forms. But it can look a lot of different ways. So, for example, you know, one thing that I do in my sales process is my sales process is intentionally I've intentionally slowed it down so much because. I wanna know you deeply, and I want you to know me deeply and I wanna feel really, really good when you come into my space.
Gieselle: And I want us to both feel, to feel on an alignment. Something that I feel is revolutionary is pricing your offers, not just based on like what you can charge people, but what you need and letting there be a limit. A lot of times these days, when I tell folks my one-on-one prices, I mean, they're still like pretty decent.
Gieselle: But a lot of times when I tell folks my one-on-one prices, they're like, oh, I was expecting it to be more. And I was like, I just don't need more. I just don't like, there's no reason to charge you thousands upon thousands of dollars for something that, I mean, I hate, I probably shouldn't say this as a coach, but I just don't think there's coaching.
Gieselle: That's worth a hundred thousand dollars, unless you are a straight up millionaire. Revolutionary business is one that prior, like I said, prioritizes your body. And so, what that means is you leave space for your cycles, your ebbs and your flows, and you do things slowly and you aren't working 24 7.
Gieselle: That's what I think of when I think of revolutionary business. And it's one where at the end of the day, it's really for the collective liberation of folks of color. Like that's, that's what I think about. Like, even if you know, not anyone listening to us is white, but like, even if you're white at the end of the day, like your revolution should start with the, with the collective liberation of folks of color.
Gieselle: That's where everything starts at the end of the day. So that's what I think of when I think of when I think of revolutionary business.
Dalia: Oh, I love that. And we would probably be surprised because that was something that I think I learned in the program, but also had reinforced by white friends who said, they have to be told don't come in for them to, for it to even occur to them that maybe not all spaces are for them.
Dalia: Totally. So, they said, they would absolutely still go into a conference that says African American, blah, blah. They said it wouldn't even occur to them that maybe they're not supposed to go in there. And so, we may very well have a lot of white listeners, you know, because luckily for them they've been socialized to feel welcome everywhere they go.
Dalia: Just so y'all know that it's not a universal experience. And all I can say is, must be nice, but it's interesting how
Gieselle: like literally kicking my feet in joy at that must be nice
Dalia: but it has been interesting starting to accept more how much like you said, everything is a building block and how much of our experiences, while of course you don't wanna suffer for the sake of suffering.
Dalia: But it is interesting how much, if you survive and experience, it is a catalyst for growth. And that even though systemic oppression blows and racism sucks, it does help you build skills. And it creates an opportunity for you to get to know yourself in a way that people are not likely to experience if their existence isn't constantly challenged. And if their worth isn't constantly challenged. But the thing is, you get to opt out of doing that. Like you can just suffer and not grow. And sometimes depending on your trauma, that is where people hang out. And that's been one of my biggest challenges with wanting to work with people who have a lot of racialized trauma or who have a lot of trauma around gender identity and community is some people are in a place, like you said, where they're totally shut down. They can't connect. And so, you show up and you do things and all the people that come forward don't have the trauma that you were seeking to help them with and you're like, is anybody listening?
Dalia: So, was there ever a point in your work where you started to wonder, is this going to work? Should I give up or should I pivot?
Gieselle: Every day literally every day. I won't say it's a rational thought. I think that that hasn't been a rational thought for me in a really long time. But I actually did do a little bit of a pivot this year.
Gieselle: Because for the past year, I've been speaking specifically to revolutionary business for folks of color. And then I did this small pivot to expand the message for like all change makers, all revolutionaries. And I did that and it was like crickets, absolute crickets. And I was like, okay,
Gieselle: something funky is happening here. It also didn't feel quite right to me if I'm like looking back at it. It just, I knew here's what I knew about my work is that at the end of the day, what I, what I love about the work is not what context and what, like situation we're talking about, talking about. It is like, I love working with great BIPOC folks.
Gieselle: And so, and I want this work to impact as many incredible BIPOC folks who are ready for it and need it as it can be. So that's why I made that. Like I opened it up for a little bit and then after having that experience of like, okay, thriving stuff, like it's kind of radio silence, like not fully working, it's not feeling fully aligned.
Gieselle: That's when I came back to, okay, its still revolutionary business, but it's just a different level. It's people who are even who are more resourced, not resourced. And when I say resourced, I mean resourced in their somatic capacity and their like ability to do the work and because we can go deeper and further.
Gieselle: And because, you know, as I'm working with leaders, like you talked about earlier, it ripples. And so, the more impact I make with leaders, the more they're gonna go out into their individual revolutions and be able to serve more, more, more and more. Long story short, I think about pivoting every day.
Gieselle: Not right now, right now. I'm like, but I wonder I'm like, I don't know, is I, is anything happening even though I know it's just the crazy space. I do know that for myself.
Dalia: And did it feel scary to feel like, oh, I'm, niching down even more to people who clearly have the capacity. It makes sense if there were people in the container that weren't ready for it yet, but I would imagine it would also feel like ekk now I'm narrowing in even more.
Gieselle: It feels really scary and really vulnerable. Every time you make a change in your business, there's no place where you're going to get. If you are someone where you've been generating income, even if you're not generating it at the level, you want to, you know, that when push comes to shove, you'll be able to generate some income.
Gieselle: So, it's less scary for me because I know that my business could really, truly, never die. I mean, maybe like I'm gonna knock on this bamboo, what I've got over here. but. I have the skill sets to revive it if something were funky were to happen but making that change feels really vulnerable and putting out my new season of my podcast, it's all around revolutionary leadership and it, it, it is interesting.
Gieselle: You know, I know I have those revolutionary leaders in my audience. I know so many of my folks wanna be those revolutionary leaders as well. And so, it's just about me believing, and this is really at the end of the day, this is all of it. And this is what brought me to serving BIPOC folks. This is what brought me to serving BIPOC folks in that way.
Gieselle: It's just about believing that if you have the calling for it, if you feel it, if it feels right to you, it's right. And even if you don't fully believe it in the moment, even if your head is like, should we jump ship every single day? It's about knowing like, no, I'm still gonna like, hold my feet to the fire because I know that this is what is right.
Gieselle: And this is what's meant for me. I just have to wait for it to actually come to fruition.
Dalia: How do you get back to that place when you're in a position where you feel like you're doubting? There's a lot of people out there who are so good at communicating what they do. and which is basically marketing that they know, Hey, I can just, you know, Put up a tent somewhere and I can sell some things and there's a lot of people who don't have that and they don't have that confidence, but business comes to you in different ways and that's okay too.
Dalia: But what do you do when you can't seem to reconnect to that belief that, oh, this was an actual calling. How do you stay connected to that? Mm
Gieselle: that's a great question. I tap into like, something that I really work to do every day is like to tap into some kind of divination tool or something that like does ground me in my spirituality.
Gieselle: So, like right now I'm playing with tarot. I'm like getting to know the tarot again. And so, I'm pulling tarot cards or some things that like, honestly, the most important thing for me, like aside from like the spirituality, cause even that sometimes like can't fully ground me is having space held for me where I can name all of the fears and be reoriented and shown different perspectives. And so, for me, coaching is really helpful. I know that's like such a coach thing to say, but it's the truth is that like, I wouldn't be able to do like all of the things that I've done in my business, all of the shifts and changes and pivots and growth that I've had would never have happened without having like a really good coach.
Gieselle: And when I'm talking about coaching, I'm not talking about people who just like showed up one day and said that there are coach, like I'm talking about like real skilled coaches who can hold space powerfully, who aren't trying to tell you what to do, but really understand the sole job of a coach, a true coach is to ground you back into that knowing and that feeling.
Gieselle: So, someone that can bring you back there even more powerfully than you might be able to in that moment that's, that's been like the most helpful thing for me is so even if you're like, I'm not resourced enough to have a coach right now, having someone who it is capable of supporting you in a way where they step aside.
Gieselle: And it's just about you, because I think that's the problem with relying on friends and family and stuff is that you always have energetic connection, like even with a coach, right. But it's, it's like their interests are somehow still intertwined with yours when you are talking to a friend or a family member.
Gieselle: So, if you have someone who's able to like step back and be like, I literally don't matter here and you can feel safe just like, and we'll just dance with it from your space, then that can work too.
Dalia: Yeah, it's really tricky learning how so I am in the process. I've already done my 125 hours, but I have not done all the coaching practice hours that I need to finish my PCC, but I should be done by this summer.
Gieselle: Look at you go.
Dalia: But it's been interesting seeing in the training, the biggest problem that I needed to suppress was the desire to offer a fix. When I felt like I knew exactly what they should do and how often they had an answer. That was not my answer. That was the perfect answer for them. and how, even in the practice sessions.
Dalia: I might say what I hear you saying is, and there's one word that I added that changes the tone that they're like, well, I don't really think it's that, but it reflects how I perceive their problem. and usually it's because I don't relate to it. And I'm like, I'm imagining that this is how people must feel when they have these kinds of problems.
Dalia: Or it could be that I relate to it so much that I'm projecting. It's just been interesting. Practicing, listening just to reflect back to the person what they're saying and what they actually want, not to help them with anything.
Gieselle: It's so rare that we get that in this world. And I feel like that's so often all we crave at the end of the day, right.
Is someone to see us and to it's really just for someone to see us. And that's 99% of what coaching is and being, and I wanna like take it outta the context of coaching and like being truly supported is right. It's like knowing that someone sees you and they're with you. It's like, if you're an, if you're sobbing, it's like, I don't have to sob, but like I'm here.
Or if you're elated, it's like, I'm also there. But it's hard. It's hard to do because we're so used to, like, I'm sure you, you notice that someone who's like getting their PCC, but even as like a friend and an individual, right. It's like, oh no, this person's got something going on. How do I fix it? I'm like, what do I do?
Dalia: Absolutely. And I've become more aware of when I want to fix it. Or I wanna bring in all this previous knowledge I have about the friend. And tell them, like I, in this case, do know what's right for you because I've known you for like 30 years . And trying to understand that that still doesn't make me the authority on their life. They are the authority. And the best thing I could do for them as a friend is try and help them see that they are the authority , but usually in reality these days, I'm like, I'm gonna tell you what to do first. And then I'm gonna ask you, like, what do you think you really wanna do? It's just so hard.
Dalia: you're so to turn it off, I'm like, you know, I'm gonna be right. It can take years, but you'll come back. but the, the true training has been so helpful. But one thing I did wonder about is how did you survive coaching training and all the different containers you've been in that were not made for people of color.
And come out with a skillset that is so perfectly tailored for folks of color.
Gieselle: Yeah. That's a really great question. So, I will say I'll be like completely honest where my journey to like decolonizing and like being where I'm at, it's pretty, fairly recent. Like it was like a deep dive and like a going straight, to the deep end.
Gieselle: But when I did my coach training, I can't remember what year years are gone to me, but like four or five years, five years ago, I think at this point. I was not bothered by being in fully white spaces yet because I was so used to it. And we were still at that point in society where like, I think we were still in that point where everyone was pretending like life was post racial, like Obama was president and like, like it's all good.
Gieselle: And, you know, I was just starting to get, I had actually just had my first real life experience where I genuinely felt like my success was impacted by being Black, where I had never well, I will say I had never felt like I had that experience before. Like I feel like I was lucky for the most part.
Gieselle: And I still found where I was able to go despite being Black. That being said, I really like these days, I really hate when people say that. Cause I'm like, yeah, yeah, right like Blackness, like never came into play in your success.
Dalia: Well, what's so funny is the conditioning is so good in some areas. That you don't know, you don't know exactly you and you may end up doing the same things as your white peers. But what you don't know is how much more you had to do to get it. Exactly. Cause I even look back at what I've had to do for certain credentials. and I never, in a million years would've thought to go to the professor and say, I'm just overwhelmed.
And they say, don't worry about it. Or you can turn in a fraction of it. Or you can turn everything in late with no penalty. I did not know these things were a thing and then they start being revealed and I'm like, oh, I didn't even know how differently I was being treated.
Dalia: Or when people only network with their white students, they don't announce that they're going to network with them. You know? So, it's interesting how sometimes you may not have felt it or noticed it, but definitely doesn't mean it didn't happen, but at least you didn't lose sleep over it.
Gieselle: I didn't get sleep over it for sure.
Gieselle: And so that was like my initial coach training. So, like, I didn't. So, like then I was like, oh, I don't know. Like, but I was really lucky. And, and when I say lucky, I mean, like it's obvious in retrospect that the majority of my clients this entire time have been folks of color. So like, to this day, if you get on a sales call with me and you don't tell me your like racial or ethnic identity, I mean, I can't go like as granular as country, but I can typically tell you like, okay, you are you've been an American for a few generations, one generation you are an immigrant, you are Latina, you are Asian, you are south Asian.
Gieselle: Cuz like I just worked with that many people and I've seen like the typical, like there are typical things that come from each culture. And they manifest in different ways. So that's what really created my experience was just doing the work and doing it with the people.
Gieselle: But I have had experiences where I didn't survive the container. And one of those was the precursor to creating. My to like creating my work in the shape that it is now where like long story short, I was doing this leadership program, which it's one of those things whereas a person of color, I look back at that leadership program and I'm like, so mad that it's so exclusive because it was great.
Gieselle: But it was, it was my first experience being in a white space and feeling suffocated by whiteness. Like, I literally felt like I was losing my mind. And I remember my husband he's very rarely like actually great with these things. Juan is racially white, ethnically Latino, but it's, he's like very, he's very rarely good with these things.
Gieselle: And he very rarely can like actually relate to my experience as a person of color. Cuz he is white, he reads is white. And so, but I like called him crying and I was like, I'm losing my mind out here. It didn't help that this program had, this program was one of those many like white spiritual programs where it had borrowed from a lot of different cultures.
Gieselle: And they just felt like if they had the right intention that we should be able to do all of the things. And people had started talking about race because because they were using the word tribe and they refused to like, just let it go. Why white people insist on keeping words that aren't theirs, it never ceases to amaze me.
Gieselle: Like I just don't understand it at all.
Dalia: That's so interesting, cuz I was gonna ask like how was it suffocating you?
Gieselle: So yeah, it was like, we were constantly having conversations about race that the people of color had to carry. And like I, as the sole Black person, there's a difference right in what you carry because as the Black person, everyone turns to you first around these things and then there's everyone else. And in the space, everyone only wanted to talk to me about racial things sometimes. Like we did this exercise, oh my God, this exercise. So, we did this exercise, which I actually think is a really beautiful exercise, but it's basically like assuming that your thoughts around people like your judgments around people and how they feel about you are probably incorrect.
Gieselle: So, you clear it, you just say like, Hey, I feel like you think I might be talking too much and it's like, they don't need to respond. They don't need to do anything cuz you know, it's all about you. It's all in your head. Right. And you just release it. But everyone's the teachers literally said do not go up to Gieselle and every time say, say something about race.
Gieselle: like, they literally said that and 90% of people still came up and did it anyways, did it anyways thinking they were special little butterfly.
Dalia: That's so interesting. Like that goes back to it almost being impossible to keep certain environments just are not going to be safe. They're inherently unsafe.
Dalia: So maybe the people who led it, maybe the people on stage, if it had just been you and them, it would've been fine. But all these other random, oh,
Gieselle: not even them. not even that the woman who led it, white woman teared me the first day. And, and we talked about holding onto your marginalized identities, she's Jewish.
Gieselle: And so she was like very much holding onto the like marginalization that Jewish people feel and like incapable of seeing like her impact in other ways .
Gieselle: So, yeah, it, it was inherently unsafe and it was something that I didn't know going in, but it's known about this program. I think there are so many spaces that we all know, like I think about MFA programs sometimes I think about getting my MFA. I'm like nonfiction or fiction. And, but I'm not willing to intentionally go into unsafe spaces anymore. But we, we do that all the time as folks of color.
Gieselle: We intentionally step in unsafe spaces because we wanna get that information. We wanna get the knowledge and the only way to get it, sometimes it feels like is to make yourself on
Dalia: Set yourself on fire. Yeah. That is interesting because in the end, even when you're not recognizing that what's happening to you is unfair and there's a disparity there, the stress that you carry and how hard just thinking about how much harder somebody has to work when every time they go into a space, they feel unsafe.
Versus if you come in the space and you feel like totally at home and comfortable, just the amount of emotional and cognitive energy that goes into learning and staying on alert.
Gieselle: Absolutely. Well, and when we talk about the way that, like our nervous system functions and our brain functions, when you are at alert, you don't have access to the higher parts of your brain that can process information, analyze information, like and so it, it really is impactful.
Gieselle: It really is a detriment because you are not physically capable of taking in the same amount of information as someone who feels a hundred percent safe. And like, this is why I do my work. Because if you don't feel safe in the places where you're being supported, you can't actually get the support you need.
Gieselle: Like you're only getting a percentage of it because you're like trying to navigate being in a space instead of just actually allowing yourself to let go and be.
Dalia: That resonates so much. And that really explains how you can go into healing space and get virtually nothing out of it. Because the space itself was not safe.
Dalia: Like I went into a container that a white friend recommended and they said, oh, he's so great. He's so intersectional. He's so progressive. So this is another person who had multiple marginalized identities, but still cis white man . And I will say he did feel like a very safe person, but his container, you can't control these people.
Dalia: No one said anything that was blatantly problematic, but I only went to one live meeting. Cause I was like, I am too tired to even deal with people, treating me like seeing me is some kind of event, you know, totally or recommending other Black resources to me when I didn't ask them for that. Like, people can't conceive of how peculiar that feels.
Dalia: When somebody, you meet someone, you don't know them from Adam and they're not a person of color. And they're like, oh, you're this color. Here's this resource. What makes you think I need you to come rescue me? What makes you think you're an expert on what kind of community I need?
Dalia: And did I ask you? I don't know you like that. What makes you think I take referrals from just anybody? And that's another thing that I feel like is unique maybe not across the board, but it's a necessary function of being in a country that's always like trying to kill you or make you feel like shit is that, you know, better than to just take referrals from just anybody.
Dalia: Like you don't know this person and they don't have the same lived experience as you for all I know she just saw a flyer somewhere or I could show up and they could, it could be 100% hoteps all the way through everybody transphobic and bananas, and to just not know that you really just shouldn't be offering all this information, willy nilly to people of color.
Dalia: Who said we would respond to that? So that was just enough for me to feel like, oh, well, I'm a freak show here. And everyone is aware of my color and no one's just seeing me as a person. So these other people, you're just meeting a person. And when you are meeting me, all you're seeing is this is a Black person.
Dalia: And you're trying to think about what you're saying or you're trying to do the right thing. It just felt hella awkward. And I was like, I don't have time for this shit.
Gieselle: And this is like the problem. Yes. I, number one, I see you. I completely see you and like, this is the problem, right? Because it's not that we don't wanna be seen as Black or whatever we are.
Gieselle: It's like we wanna be seen in all of our identities and we don't want to be special or fetishized or marginalized because of them. And there's so very few people in very few spaces that are capable of holding both. I see you in the beauty of your identities and also you're still just a person than me.
You know, like you're still just a regular degular person and those get to coexist and yeah, it's really hard to find that. And that's where I think we see a lot of folks. I see so many folks of color being like, I don't want people to see me as Black. I don't want them to see me as this thing first.
Gieselle: It, and it's like, well, no, like, I think you do. like, I think you want them to like, acknowledge who you are because you know, when it comes to like, I, I feel like racial identity and I think, yeah, well, I'll, I'll just stick with racial identity cuz that's where I'm most well versed, but it's like, it's one of the most important identities to you.
If not the most important identity to you, cuz there's so much culture and love and joy baked into that.
Dalia: Most people really take issue with people saying they're colorblind because , that reads as I refuse to acknowledge your cultural distinctness, in any way, I am not capable of celebrating that you have a culture.
And that's a problem as well and acting like, oh, I'm gonna give you permission to assimilate is some kind of a gift doesn't vibe with me. But I would like to be seen as like a whole ass person, like, yes, I am Black. And guess what? There's something that comes after that. but people are so used to this really flattened image of anyone.
Dalia: Who's not like them. that they don't always understand. This is a complete person. This is not a caricature. You don't know anything about me if all you've done is look at me. You literally don't know anything about me. You wouldn't look at somebody white and think, oh, you know, I know most likely where they live, how much money they make, but other people make all these assumptions.
Dalia: And all they've done is look at you. And they're convinced that they don't have a problem. And in a lot of these containers, you can't convince them of otherwise. . So when did your interest in leadership become really clear for you? And I know you mentioned that because you can have the greatest impact with people who are leaders.
Dalia: What does that even mean to you? Who is a leader?
Gieselle: such a good question. Everyone's a leader first and foremost. I mean, we really are, right. Like, even if you're just leading yourself, like, first of all, leading yourself, isn't just leading yourself because the way that you show up does impact other people and the way that they show up.
Gieselle: But sometimes leadership is like being a supporter. Sometimes leadership is being a mother sometimes, or a parent. Sometimes leadership is just being a sibling or a friend or the person who says, Hey, let's get pizza tonight. You know? So I, I wanna say that that leadership is everyone. And also what I.
Gieselle: The reason why I decided to lean into revolutionary leadership. And the definition that I am leaning towards with it, which is folks who have been on this train, right? They're on a decolonial train. They've been UNlearning. They've been doing all the things. They're in the process of creating an impact.
Gieselle: They have a revolution that they likely are already leading. The reason why I decided to work with them is cuz I wanted to . Oh, I
Dalia: love that answer. That's not what I expected.
Gieselle: It's and I will say it just feels right. To me, it really, I think something for me, because I think at the end of the day leaders, the leaders that I'm most excited to work with are coaches, healers, guides, like people who are really in the, in the trenches serving 24 7, or who have some kind of like deeper calling.
Gieselle: I've always been fo been focused on people who have a calling. So like creatives, I love working with creatives as well. I, I completely forgot what I wanted to say. So I don't know. It's a half thought.
Dalia: I, I was thinking the other day, like something I realized, well, a friend helped me realize, and I think I was afraid to step into this or accept it is that the work that I do also is not for beginners. Yes, but because of my fear of there not being enough people or my fear of nieching down too much, or really having a laser focus that it would hurt me.
Dalia: I kept accepting people who were nowhere near ready. Yes. Like if you haven't done any healing work, I'm not for you. . If you have no concept of the fact that you can internalize messaging, that doesn't serve you, that works an opposition to your identities, then we're not ready to work together.
Dalia: If I'm having to convince you that it's safe to start trusting your body, we're not ready for each other. Like if we're not, you are at the point where you believe it, but you're trying to get there. You have some concept of it and you're looking for an opportunity to do deeper work, then we're ready. Yep.
Dalia: But it's just been tricky for me to acknowledge too, because of how marketing generally works or is presented to people what I am always hearing about is like how to just speak to pain points. And I think the pain points for somebody who's deeper in the work is gonna be different. And it probably won't sound as, I don't wanna say dramatic, but the person might not even recognize it as a problem.
Gieselle: Yes, absolutely. Because you've already done healing work. Right. And like, I mean, I always try to stay away from pain points in general because like it's manipulative and it's based in like sales psychology, which is like just manipulating our brain. Really when you're working with someone who isn't a beginner.
Gieselle: And I think that's really what I, what made me want to move more towards leaders and people who like already have this language are already thinking about these things. They're like thinking deeply. And we're just exploring in a deeper way. Same as you is that it's just more fun. It's just more fun.
Gieselle: And they're actually ready for the work that you're capable of doing and that you wanna do with people. But what you're getting to expand them into is something that I think as folks of color, we don't get to expand into enough, which is just having more, like more than enough. You know, I think it's tough with like both of the kinds of works that we do, cuz it's not just like, oh, well I'm gonna go make you like $10,000 in one day.
Gieselle: And like for your work, because you're doing wellness in a decolonized way, you might not lose weight or you might not do this thing that that you think you want, it's not the sexy thing. And also it's allowing you to expand into this moreness this space that we very rarely allow ourselves to even dream of, because it feels so hard to access as a person of color.
Gieselle: We're always just fighting for enough. We're fighting for the scraps, the thought of having abundance and more, it's hard for us, especially as revolutionaries where, I mean, we could even talk about the concept of more it's like, well, how much is too much and then when are we hoarding and blah, blah, blah. So yeah, this it's this really difficult concept for us that comes into play..
Dalia: Yeah, that brings up, this is one of my big questions. How do you reconcile the fact that some people feel like everything has to be accessible to everyone? And the people who will feel kind of like butt hurt because it's for advanced people or it's for people who have more resources and the people who feel like thriving rates, shouldn't be a thing.
I was listening to something Sonya Renee Taylor was explaining was that she's not trying to be out in these streets, starving, you know, dying with an unmarked grave or doing some Zora Neale Hurston type of shit. Like we are not, you don't have to do that. But the criticism that comes at you, especially if you're assigned female at birth, if you are not like, Hey, I just wanna bleed and give, give, give, give, give, I don't need anything.
Dalia: I'm just gonna eat shit and say, thank you. Like, how do you reconcile the part of you that does want to help and the part of you that you were not called to do entry level shit. and like, do you explain that to people or do you just let it go? You just say like, Hey, there's a bunch of tables out there go find another one. Like, how do you
Gieselle: handle that?
Gieselle: Well I'll say first and foremost that I do not have the kind of personality where people feel comfortable stepping to me in that kind of way, like in any way, shape or form. So I'd never worry about someone actually saying that to my face, but to, for people who are thinking that, you know, I know that in my work, cuz people tell me all the time, like I have fundamentally shifted the way that people think just from my free content and just from the emails I sent and the Instagram posts I make in my Facebook group, like I'm constantly educating there, perspective shifting there.
Gieselle: And there is so much available to you and so much growth available to you if you just hang out in my world. Which I'm always shocked by because because like at the end of the day, like I know that the real juice is in the actual coaching and then at least that's how I've always felt. Right. But there are so many people who tell me, like, I think about this thing completely differently because of these emails or this, that, so that's what I say is that like, my work is a hundred percent accessible.
Gieselle: If you follow me for free, if you go to my stuff there's an abundance of information for you to sit with to process, like, sure you're not getting the like coaching side of it, but for, it's not, it's also, that's not always necessary for every single person. Like some people really just need to hear something a different way.
Gieselle: And then it just like changes everything for you. And the last thing I would say to anyone who's like coming at me with that, is that what are you doing, policing what I do with my money and my and my life. Like, I am not a billionaire. I think that there's a really interesting societal, like investigation we can do here.
Gieselle: Right. Because we actually so very rarely interrogate billionaires around this kind of thing. We are just like, well, they worked really hard
Dalia: and they
Gieselle: deserve it. They're a genius. And then us like the people who are out here doing like the real work to help liberate people were expected to bleed and to do it happily.
Gieselle: And that's just an, I, I would really tell anyone like, If you're gonna be like coming for somebody, go to Jeff Bezos, don't be stepping to me talking about how I should charge $1. And you're still ordering shit off of amazon.com. Okay.
Dalia: Yeah, that really says something because you'll hear people even argue like, well, the more money you send in that person's direction is gonna generate jobs.
Well, who says that I wouldn't be a good steward of that money. Cause so there's multiple layers there. What makes you think the money isn't better off in my hands than someone else. And why would you want me to have to work insane hours at a job that supports me so that I can keep bleeding for you doing labor for free, like sure.
Dalia: It's a labor of love, even podcasting but the key word there is labor.
Gieselle: well, and this like comes all, it, it comes back to all of our relationships with capitalism, right? It's we all are so used to living in a system where we're supposed to work 24 7, and we're supposed to exploit ourselves for someone else's gain that.
Gieselle: It feels right to people and it feels it, well, let me rephrase this. It feels wrong to people when you honor yourself and your needs, that is actually like, feels wrong in like a problem to them. And so that's the real issue around it is that there's some deep internalized capitalism that anyone who's questioning that really needs to look at.
Gieselle: And question, if they're coming to any person of color questioning what they're charging and they're thriving because we are all owed so much more than we could ever get in this lifetime. I don't know, maybe not Oprah. Like she's good, but but everyone, but everyone else, like, no, we we've got more than enough coming to us.
Gieselle: There is, we got more than enough generations of wealth that we deserve. And if we want it, I'm not someone where I'm like out here trying to generate tons of generational wealth or things like that. That's not really what I care about at the end of the day. But if that is what you care about, and that's something that you're wanting for yourself, I support you.
Gieselle: And I love you because you deserve that thriving. And it's been stripped of us for so long. Get it while, get it in this lifetime. If it feels right for you.
Dalia: I love the freedom that you give people to find their own solutions and understand that the answer might not be right for everybody because we know it in general, the way things are set up now it's predatory.
Dalia: Yep. People aren't prioritized, but there are a lot of people out there acting like, well, you need to burn it all down and you shouldn't accept money for anything. And you should just like live under bridge. Well, why are you out here trying to take people's freedom of choice away from them to decide like, do I wanna try and thrive?
Dalia: Do I feel like I can do more if I make sure my revolution is sustainable and maybe your revolution looks different and we don't have to put that on other people. And that's, to me, that's also a sign of really quality, authentic coaching is that you give people more choices, not less.
Gieselle: I completely agree.
Gieselle: You know, my thing with all of this and with, with everything in life, not just around this money piece of it is that we're all on different stages of the journey. We're all in different places. It's like when we talk about who we work with, right? Like someone's at this beginning space, there's no, nothing wrong with that.
Gieselle: I'm just not for them. Right. When it comes to, you know, an being anti-capitalist and your feelings around money, Again, we're in different spaces. We have different traumas, different lived experiences. Who am I to say, where you should be? You're where you're ready to be and where you're supposed to be in this moment.
Gieselle: If you're meant to get to this other place, you'll get there. If you aren't, you aren't and that's okay. Like I do not believe that I am the pinnacle of information of inclusion of like all of the things I'm working on it. It's something that I'm constantly thinking about. But at the end of the day, I'm at the beginning of my journey still in so many ways, I think we all are and I'm gonna grow, I'm gonna shift and I'm gonna look back as shit I'm doing now and be like, how was I doing that? Oh my God, I could die just thinking about it. And that, that gets to be okay. And where I'm at, right.
Dalia: Ooh. I love that. Where can everybody find you? Where's the best place to catch you on these internet
Gieselle: So you can find me over on Instagram. I'm just, I keep it simple. I'm Gieselle Allen over there, but make sure you don't miss that first E after the I and Gieselle or else you will miss me. I'm also, if you are a fan of podcasts, I've got the Revolutionary Rising podcast. It's over well, anywhere where you listen to podcast . You can also go to my website and hang out with me there, get on my newsletter. My newsletter is like the most reliable place to hang out with me because I will disappear like really quickly from everywhere else. But I will hang out on my email list until the day I die.
Gieselle: So yeah.
Dalia: Yeah. We've seen it happen. We've seen it happen. If there was one thing that you could say, as we wrap up and everyone would understand it, internalize it, believe it for the rest of their lives, what would it be? Hmm.
Gieselle: You are important. You are wanted and you are loved. That's it. And if you don't believe those things right now, it's not because it's not true.
Gieselle: It's because you might be surrounded by the wrong people, or you might be in a space where you have some healing to do and both of those are okay. And you'll get there.
Dalia: I love that. Thank you so much for coming on.
Gieselle: Thank you for having me. It's been such a fun conversation.
I needed to hear so much of this conversation, the concept of not being able to be all things to all people and that not only being okay but being natural and by design, maybe you were called to do something very specific. We don't need to apologize or continually question what our intuition is telling us, learning to trust what you want, learning to trust that you also know what you need is really a process. It is just amazing to see how often we are, the ones that hold the answer to questions that have been plaguing us for years. Working with a great coach is so helpful in getting that clarity and learning that you can trust your gut. You can trust your body.
You can trust your wants and desires. It sounds so simple. But after a literal lifetime of being socialized to question everything that comes naturally to you it really isn't that simple. And it isn't something that's gonna happen in just a moment when you're growing, there's always gonna be ebbs and flows. There will be times when you feel like you're making tremendous progress with self-acceptance and you're moving forward. And then there will be times when you feel like you've taken a few steps back and that is okay. That's just how it goes. So it's so helpful to see someone who's done so much growing share that the growth process is not over and it continues and that's a good thing it isn't something that we have to feel shame or distress over.
If you are really feeling these themes of liberation and self-trust, then Decolonizing Wellness is 100% for you. Check out the links in the show notes and order your copy now, this is the book that I needed no other self-help bod-pos book I read, addressed my intersectional identities. As a queer gender fluid pansexual person, Black, raised in the south, assigned female at birth, I didn't see anything out there that took those identities into consideration when talking about the healing that has to occur for you to fully feel at home in your body and for you to be able to trust that you know how to feed yourself, you know, how to care for yourself. After reading this book, you'll have the tools. Practical tangible tools that you need to really get started on internalizing and embodying self trust and self-acceptance when it comes to wellness and feeding yourself.
So, make sure you order it, get a copy for your friends and be sure to post if you love it. I absolutely adore public speaking, and I'm so excited to start talking about the themes that I really dug into in the book all over the place. If you are with a group or an organization that you feel like could really use that message, please reach out to me so we can get you on the calendar. Alight, thank you so much for joining me. Thank you so much for joining me. I will see you next time.